Philip Polkinghorne murder trial: Defence expert says he would have ruled Pauline Hanna’s death a suicide
WARNING: DISTRESSING CONTENT
A respected Australian pathologist hired to testify for the defence in the Philip Polkinghorne murder trial said today that he would have confidently ruled Pauline Hanna’s death a suicide had he been responsible for the case.
The bold assertion was his final statement to jurors after an entire day and an additional hour this morning of answering questions from the Auckland eye surgeon’s defence lawyer. But as had happened with the two Crown pathologists who testified before him, Dr Stephen Cordner’s answers appeared somewhat more equivocal under cross-examination.
“It’s perfectly reasonable for people to have different points of view,” he said of the other two pathologists, both of whom told jurors they could not determine if Hanna’s neck compression death was due to suicide or homicide.
Under cross-examination from the Crown, when asked if an injury on Polkinghorne’s forehead could have been made from his wife’s fingernail during a struggle, Cordner said it couldn’t be ruled out.
Polkinghorne, 71, has been on trial in the High Court at Auckland for six weeks, with jurors having learned today that they aren’t expected to begin deliberating until next Friday. Prosecutors have said the defendant strangled his wife of 24 years inside their Remuera home – perhaps during an argument over his exorbitant spending on sex workers, particularly his attention to Sydney escort Madison Ashton – before staging the scene on the morning of April 5, 2021, to look like a suicide by hanging.
STORY CONTINUES AFTER BLOG
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Court will resume 10am Monday - and so will our live updates.
Trial adjourns for the day with evidence from psychiatrist
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Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield returns to the account of Hanna's good presentation and how she was outwardly cheerful in manner.
She sounds vivacious and someone who wants to give a good appearance, says Neilssen.
People with those qualities often conceal the fact of their being depressed, he says.
In the circumstances of what's known about Hanna's mental health, you've got chronic thoughts of suicide you keep to yourself, and a combination of alcohol and Zopiclone, plus trigger events like work related stress and bereavement, the witness says.
The decision, following what Neilssen says was "unusual behaviour" like taking items to the tip, could have been unplanned, he says.
"My guess is that it would have been impulsive rather than something that would have been planned."
Neilssen says impulsive unplanned suicides frequently come up in his work.
That ends the psychiatrist's evidence-in-chief.
He will return on Tuesday for cross-examination by the prosecution. In the interim, the defence will call other witnesses on Monday.
Justice Lang calls it there for the day. Court will resume 10am Monday.
Hanna at higher risk for suicide - psychiatrist
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He's reviewed a couple of cases of suicide in health managers in Australia, where it was a surprise to their colleagues. Hanna was a senior DHB manager with a high level role in the Covid vaccine rollout.
Neilssen says being a perfectionist makes you more vulnerable to depression.
He says the medical notes from time to time mention depression, but the medical notes showed the fluoxetine was continually prescribed.
Suicides may not be planned, Neilssen says. They can be decided in the moment.
What about the stresses of a demanding job? asks Mansfield.
Neilssen says the risk factor for high performing people is professional disgrace or failure.
The trial heard earlier Hanna told family she was worried she would be linked in the media to a botched procurement of PPE early in the Covid pandemic.Bereavement is also a risk factor, he says. (Hanna's mother died a couple of months before Hanna was found dead. And the alleged suicide attempt described by her sister Tracey happened after her father died, the jury heard earlier).
Neilssen says only 30 to 40% of people leave suicide notes.
"The minority actually leave a note."
Mansfield references Hanna having reported thinking about suicide around Christmas 2019.
Neilssen says the notes record she had considered driving head on into a truck. She had been referred to a mental health team and had given an undertaking she would see a psychologist.
Did you see any evidence of her having seen a psychiatrist or psychologist on any long term basis?
No, says Neilssen.
The ideation of suicide reported to her GP and the crisis team, do we need to take that into account when considering if there are suicidal risk factors for Hanna? asks Mansfield.
Definitely, says Neilssen.
Someone who has self-harmed previously is 100 times more likely to try commit suicide again.
"We've got to bear in mind suicide is a rare event."
Mansfield then references the previous suicide attempt alleged by Tracey Hanna.
"It does suggest that she is in a higher risk group," says Neilssen.
Then we've got the work pressures and the cocktail of drugs and alcohol, says Mansfield.
Neilssen agrees they are risk factors too, as was the recent death of her mother Fay, to whom she was close.
Mansfield says, so just that we're very clear, you can't and you don't attempt to tell us whether Hanna did commit suicide?
Neilssen agrees, and confirms he's just here to speak about the factors that "very greatly increased her risk compared to other people".
Hanna was a perfectionist, seemed to conceal her mood - psychiatrist
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Dr Olav Neilssen, a psychiatrist from Sydney, says snippets that have come through from the material he's reviewed suggest Hanna was very perfectionist.
Her personality seemed to really conceal her underlying mood, she doesn't want to show distress to other people and wants to show a good outward appearance physically and professionally, the witness says.
Mansfield asks if that despite these public appearances, whether the public appearance in itself is an indicator or not of suicide risk.
"It's very common for it to come as a complete surprise, particularly to work colleagues," Neilssen says.
While unsuccessful people are more likely to commit suicide, high achievers can also take their own lives, he says.
"Successful people do commit suicide too."
"It's less common among successful people ... but it still occurs."
Psychiatrist says Hanna's depression combined with alcohol and Zopiclone 'very dangerous for suicide'
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The typical sleep pattern of heavy drinkers is to fall asleep in front of the television and then wake up a couple of hours later and not be able to get to sleep. That would cause you to reach for the Zopiclone, he says.
Alcohol and Zopiclone combined are "more than additive", he says Neilssen says that's what causes people to wake up in cable ties after a long flight.
"You can become quite uninhibited," he says.
Alcohol and Zopiclone combined have an "acute disinhibiting affect".
The combination of Hanna's chronic depression and the combination of Zopiclone of alcohol "are very dangerous for suicide" says Neilssen.
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Hanna was also taking the Zopiclone prescribed to her husband, and had been taking it for at least six months, as shown by the analysis of her hair sample, Mansfield says.
Neilssen says Zopiclone works on the Benzodiazepine receptor, and is designed to help people fall asleep.Is it a drug you can get used to?
Yes, says Neilssen, you can develop tolerance to all sedatives.
Hanna had developed tolerance to amphetamine diet drug - psychiatrist
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Phentermine, the amphetamine diet drug, should only be prescribed for three months, but Hanna's GP, who has interim suppression, said that was just on paper and long-term use could be fine.
That was rejected by Neilssen.
"It's got a whole bunch of worrying side effects, foremost of which is depression," he says.
She had clearly developed a tolerance to it after a decade of chronic use, Neilssen says.
Psychiatrist speaks of impact of Hanna's medication
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Hanna was also on weight loss medication, including one which was then removed from the market.
It was replaced with phentermine about 2010, which Hanna then began taking.
"Look it's basically an amphetamine," says Neilssen of Phentermine.
How would the phentermine interact with fluoxetine? asks Mansfield.
"It's not a very good practice I would say," says Neilssen.
There's a contra-indication, because phentermine can cause serotonin syndrome, which can cause a dangerous state where people can become confused and die.
"This is what kills young people at music festivals," says the psychiatrist.
How would the cocktail of drugs she was taking with alcohol affect her?
Neilssen says the phentermine was the worst of them, which could cause a long term depletion of serotonin and noradrenaline leading to depression, the effect of long term amphetamine use.
That would render the anti-depressant fluoxetine she was taking ineffective.
Psychiatrist says red wine consumed by Hanna relevant to investigation
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Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield is questioning Dr Olav Neilssen, a psychiatrist from Sydney.
Mansfield asks if he can help the court with Hanna's "known psychiatric disorders".
Neilssen says she definitely had an alcohol use disorder, though it may have lessened in recent years. A bottle of wine a night for over a decade, as she described around 2013, was a hazardous level for a woman.
Mansfield asks what hazardous means. "The proper definition is someone who drinks more than their doctor," the witness says to laughs from the gallery, but clarifies that for women it's over two to three drinks per night regularly.
A bottle of wine is about eight standard drinks, he says.
How does alcohol affect other mood disorders? asks Mansfield.
Neilssen says alcohol is excellent at relieving anxiety, until it wears off, when anxiety worsens.
Mansfield returns to the alcohol intake in light of her treatment for depression and anxiety.
Can you help us with the impact of alcohol consumption on depression and anxiety? asks Mansfield.
Everybody who drinks will have anxiety as alcohol wears off, says Neilssen.
Alcohol is a neurological depressant and most people feel lower in mood when they're drinking heavily, the psychiatrist says.
Neilssen says Hanna was on fluoxetine (aka Prozac) for about 20 years.
Using alcohol with that medication renders them less effective, he says.
"It's just an arm wrestle with the alcohol winning."
She was prescribed naltrexone and at times Disulfiram (antabuse) to treat alcohol use disorders, Neilssen says. There was also a prescription for diazepam to mitigate withdrawal symptoms.
Might it be relevant, asks Mansfield, that Hanna had consumed alcohol (red wine) the night before she was found dead in the morning?
Yes, says Neilssen.
There was an empty bottle of Pinot Noir, Hanna's favoured drink, and an open bottle of Shiraz she had also drunk from, the trial hears again.
The alcohol renders the anti-depressant medication ineffective, countering any beneficial effect from her long term use of fluoxetine, Neilssen says.
Defence runs through expert witness' CV ahead of questioning
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Dr Olav Neilssen has a Master of Criminology and a PhD from the University of Sydney.
He's a consultant psychiatrist and also does work with the homeless.
Neilssen also teaches medical students at Macquarie University.
Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield is required to run through the CV of expert witnesses.
Neilssen has a particular professional interest in depression and suicidal risk. He says he's published about 40 papers on suicide, and it's a big part of his work with the homeless.
He confirms he's aware of the Crown case against Polkinghorne, and has reviewed his April 5, 2021 police interview transcript, the date his wife died.
He's also reviewed the toxicology report and has heard the "Longlands Recording" where Hanna speaks about issues in her marriage with close family members.
In addition, he's looked at some medical notes from Hanna's GP and prescription details.
Court resumes with new witness
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Court has resumed.
Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield has called Dr Olav Neilssen, a psychiatrist from Sydney.
He's being called as an expert witness.
Court adjourns before next witness called
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Does the overall view of the injuries help with if this was a homicide or suicide? defence lawyer Ron Mansfield asks.
"No I don't think so," says pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner.
Mansfield's final questions are on the suggestion by the Crown prosecutor that he was being an advocate for the suicide theory, and not neutral as required by an expert witness.
Cordner says forensic pathology gets him out of bed in the morning and he's interested in the discipline being properly applied.
"That falls where it may."
He re-iterates his conclusion was she died hanging.
Mansfield is onto the questions from the prosecution as to where he got the suggestion Polkinghorne had hit his head on a staircase when moving the body.
The KC says it's in the notes of ESR forensic scientist Fiona Matheson in relation to something Polkinghorne's sister Ruth Hughes said.
Cordner confirms he had access to Matheson's material via disclosure.
The witness is free to go.
Justice Lang says we'll take the afternoon adjournment before returning, when the defence will call its next witness.
Blood between fingers not suspicious - pathologist
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If they were resisting while lying down, how would that affect the extent of the injuries to their neck? asks defence lawyer Ron Mansfield.
Pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner says there's still the chance of injuries to both the assailant and the victim.
I would expect that there would be some injury in the neck aggravated by the fact the victim is 61 and therefore her thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are starting to calcify and ossify, an are therefore more brittle, he says.
The trial heard earlier Hanna had none of these sort of injuries.
Mansfield says from what you're telling us, as soon as someone wakes and puts up a fight they need to be restrained with greater force, leading to potential for injuries to their neck and other parts of the body?
Yes, says Cordner.
If someone's face is pressed down as part of such a movement, into a pillow or a mattress, what kind of injuries can you see inside for example the mouth and the tongue as a result? asks Mansfield.
Cordner says smothering can cause abrasions even against pillows on the body prominences of the face. And pressure of the mouth against teeth can cause bruising against the thin inner lining of the mouth, he says.
Mansfield asks about the previous questioning about blood between Hanna's fingers. The prosecution suggested her hands could have been clean because the blood is only found between the fingers.
Cordner says those printed photos of the hands are not a very good representation of what is present when you look at the clear photos on a computer screen.
The discussion in his evidence in chief was based on the idea the blood was only between the fingers, but Cordner says he's reviewed them on his computer at the break and the blood can be seen beyond the inside of the fingers.
Cordner says it doesn't change his view on how the blood could have got there. He said earlier the blood could have come from the bleeding from the air, and the movement of the body could have caused the transfer to the hands.
Cordner says the blood between the fingers should not be viewed as a suspicious circumstance.
Defence has further questions for the witness
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That ends McClintock's cross-examination of forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner.
Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield is on his feet and is addressing Justice Lang.
He says that just before my learned friend finished "as best she does" she mentioned the Zopiclone, and asserted Hanna was sedated.
Let's be clear on what was meant by sedation, says Mansfield.
The witness says he meant some effect on the conscious state, from mildly sedated to unconscious.
McClintock says she's not suggesting at all Hanna was sedated to the point of unconsciousness, but possibly to the point it had affected her ability to resist.
Mansfield says he wanted to make sure the Crown case was not pivoting to the suggestion Hanna was unconscious or unable to respond at all.
He remains on his feet as he has some questions in reply for the witness.
Mansfield asks how quickly someone would wake if they were assaulted.
Cordner says very quickly, and they would begin resisting immediately.
Crown says Polkinghorne's head wound was from wife's fingernail during struggle
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Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock says the way the witness has approached it is to support hanging without properly taking into account the possibility it was a homicide. She says he did not act with the neutrality required of an expert witness.
"You're trying very hard here to say it's more positively a suicide," pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner says.
"Well I disagree."
McClintock says the best way to approach it would be to say the pathology in this case is neutral, but says to the witness she thinks he would disagree.
"I would," confirms Cordner.
She moves on to the injury police saw on Polkinghorne's forehead, a small, fresh wound, the trial head earlier.
Cordner says he had been told that was an injury to do with moving Hanna's body down from the chair, as he told police he did on the instructions of the 111 call-taker.
McClintock asks where he heard that and Cornder says he isn't sure, and it might have been a solicitor.
She says the jury will need to assess what evidence there is for Polkinghorne's head wound.
"It could be a nail mark, and I think you said as much in your report, didn't you?" asks McClintock.
"Yes," says Cordner.
In 13 out of 20 cases of manual or ligature strangulations, the assailant had suffered an injury, Cordner injury told the court.
That injury could be a nail mark on his forehead? asks McClintock.
That couldn't be ruled out, says Cordner.
From what you can tell us, says McClintock, you accept it could be a nail mark?
He says he would think more of it if there was an single ill-defined injury on his forehead.
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Forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner says he's tried to explain that he's approached the case in its totality.
There's no signs of manual or ligature strangulation, there is a mark on the front of the neck compatible with hanging, there is compression of the neck and lividity consistent with sitting, he says.
Crown continues tense cross-examination of forensic pathologist
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Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock references the evidence of Crown witness Emma Schwarcz, an addiction specialist and psychiatrist, who said meth use makes a person more like to be violent or even commit a homicide.
Did you factor methamphetamine use into your statement about the complexities of a person moving a dead body?
Pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner laughs "not really sure if I've factored that in".
He earlier told the court it is very hard for one person alone to manoeuvre a body, and it really takes two people to easily and successfully move a dead person.
"Because it's so difficult to manage all of the floppy parts, the legs and the arm and the head."
What about a fireman's hold? asks McClintock.
"Could do it that way, but that's quite a hard thing to do I think."
To recap, the Crown have suggested Hanna died following a struggle in an upstairs bedroom. There was no evidence she was dragged to her position in the downstairs landing near an entrance, on the carpet or on her body, the defence says.
McClintock: "The positive pathological findings for suicide are what?"
Everyone agrees there's compression to the neck, says Cordner.
But that's also relevant for homicide says McClintock, asking what are the positive pathological findings for suicide that aren't also explained by a homicide?
It's a combination of the signs of compression of the neck plus the static mark on the front of the neck in circumstances where the lividity is compatible with the deceased having been seated, says Cordner.
Further, in circumstances where if the alternative was likely, i.e. manual or ligature strangulation, he would expect to see signs on the neck or inside the neck, and/or signs indicative of assault, he says.
And if they're not present, a clear explanation of why not, he adds.
"That's the sum," he says.
"That what we do just about every case of hanging."
If the pathology is neutral, the question will be if the person is suicidal? says McClintock.
A lot of suicides are surprises, says Cordner, adding he's not a psychiatrist.
Cordner said earlier many deaths ruled suicide by hanging would be a seen as a potential homicide if the Crown's logic was followed. McClintock said those questions are resolved by looking at whether the person was suicidal.
Does the static mark on the neck, with no abrasions from movement, does that rule out homicide?
"The static mark could have been applied after death if this was a simulated hanging," Cordner acknowledges.
Crown questions whether Zopiclone could have affected Hanna's ability to resist
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Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock says pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner said earlier Hanna had been taking Zopiclone for a very long time so suggested she would have had a tolerance.
But we don't know that for sure, said McClintock, because it was not prescribed to her, instead being prescribed in the name of Polkinghorne.
And it may have impacted the ability of her to resist? asks McClintock.
"It may have, it may not have, it may have had little or no effect," Cordner says.
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Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock says to the witness: you don't you whether Pauline Hanna was asleep, and you don't know what body position she was in when she died?
Forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner says the expectation would be that such a person would wake rapidly, instantly, and would do anything in their utmost power to resist and escape from the position they're in.
Cordner says if there is a great disparity in strength then that's a relevant factor too.
We know Hanna was 61kg? says McClintock.
The Auckland Crown Solicitor then references a comment by Polkinghorne to his trainer Barry Payne that he intended to "break every record" at an upcoming session.
Is this your area of expertise? asks Justice Lang.
We move on.
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Continuing her cross-examination, Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock asks that if someone is going to commit suicide by drug overdose, whether they'd use whatever drugs they'd have to hand.
Cordner says hanging is becoming more popular as a suicide method. He earlier said advances in pharmacology meant it's now harder to use common drugs to kill yourself.
McClintock says we also know from evidence there was more Zopiclone in the house.
Crown questions if Hanna's lack of injuries was the result of self-sedation
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Forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner earlier told the court that of the 30% of strangulations where there aren't extensive defensive injuries, there is usually a good reason. That includes an 11-year-old who was drugged before they were strangled.
"I'm not suggesting before Mr Mansfield gets to his feet that Ms Hanna was drugged by another person," says McClintock.
But she did have twice the recommended level of the sedative sleeping pill Zopiclone in her system, so was self-sedated, the prosecutor says.
"The question is what impact did it have, if any," says Cordner.
McClintock says we also know she had drunk alcohol, which can increase the effects of a sedative.
Cordner says it was a pretty low level of alcohol.
The degree of sedation in a victim is relevant to the degree of resistance they would put up, isn't it? asks McClintock.
It is a factor, says Cordner, but adds people gain tolerance to drugs if they use them for a period of time, and it seemed Hanna appeared to have been taking Zopiclone for a while.
"If she's awake they're not doing their purpose, are they?" Cordner adds.
Crown continues cross-examination of pathologist
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Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock is continuing her cross-examination of defence pathologist Professor Stephen Cordner.
Do you agree with the proposition that a homicide victim's ability to resist a result may well be affected by the body position a victim is in at the time?
"Ah, yes," he says.
So if a person is on their front with their assailant behind them, that changes what the assailant has available to resist with?
Yes.
And Dr Kesha (the autopsy pathologist) had said that if a person is incapable of putting up a fight you won't necessarily get injuries?
You probably will get at least some injuries, but yes, says Cordner.
Assuming a person knows how to do it, you could get a carotid hold (choker hold, as purportedly used by some police forces and the SAS) of a person who is on their front?
Yes, assuming the assailant knows how to do it, the witness says.
Cordner agrees a carotid hold could cause unconsciousness within 10-12 seconds, but says the hold would need to have been sustained.
"Police who do that and perhaps when it's done in judo or something of that order, people are not trying to kill someone else."
Someone trying to kill someone else might use more force and therefore cause more injuries, Cordner says.
If a person had been surprised by an assailant, or was asleep for example, and the assailant somehow manages to get pressure on their neck, they could lose consciousness quite quickly, couldn't they?
McClintock says Dr Sage (another Crown pathology witness) had said a carotid hold applied where no injury was left at all.
Have you heard that evidence?
He said he was aware of a case where a person was manually strangled and the only evidence was the fact the person admitted they had done it.
"There was no injury left on the person whatsoever. So his point was it can happen with no injury," says McClintock.
"It can happen without injury, can't it?"
Cordner says the report he says notes you can have manual strangulation with no injuries on the outside of the neck.
Cordner says he thinks he would have a "pretty vigorous discussion" about what Sage really knows about that carotid hold example Sage gave the court.
This matter (Hanna's death), if it is concluded to be a homicide, is an outlier, says Cordner.
Trial about to resume
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The trial is about to resume after the lunch adjournment.
Many of the people who have been present for the majority of the trial remain in the public gallery.
They range from law students to retirees and outnumber the family members of Polkinghorne and Hanna who are also watching the trial.
The gallery remains mostly full.
Trial adjourns for lunch
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Justice Lang says it's time for lunch. But the Judge will have us resume at 2pm, instead of the usual 2.15pm.
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Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock moves on to a new topic after the Judge says we've covered this one off now.
She is asking about the horizontal impression on the neck. Kesha, the pathologist who conducted the autopsy, said he would have expected the mark to have a slightly upward impression if she had hanged herself.
Forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner says classically, in partial suspensions, you don't get the clear upward ligature mark.
Instead it's broadly horizontal, so the mark observed on Hanna's neck is "perfectly compatible" with a partial suspension hanging.
McClintock asks about Cordner's comments that he would have expected a greater extent and seriousness of injury if Hanna had been strangled in a homicide, given the defensive wounds commonly seen in strangulation victims.
She references comments by the other pathologist, Dr Sage, about the "huge number of variables" when you consider the ways in which things could have occurred.
"I think things are pretty dynamic."
Prosecutor suggests Polkinghorne might have cleaned wife's hands
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Onto the ear haemorrhage. Both he and the other pathologists had agreed it wasn't an injury.
The blood from the ear seems apparent on the pillow on which she was lying after the body had been moved, Cordner says.
There was no blood on the gown, he says.
So the best conclusion is that there were petechiaeal haemorrhages in the ear, and because she was laying on her side after death one of them popped caused the bleeding.
To recap - petechiae are tiny spots of bleeding under the skin resulting from a build up of blood in the head, as happens when neck veins are blocked.
McClintock is showing the witness photographs of Hanna's hands, adorned with rings. She says there's a smudge below the fingernail but otherwise, there's no obvious blood on the underside of her hands.
He agrees we can be confident there's blood between the fingers.
McClintock asks if he's confident the bleeding from her ear happened after death.
Cordner urges McClintock to resist the temptation to come to too many conclusions when bits and pieces are being moved too and from on the ground amid the "dynamism of moving a dead body from one place to another."
He says he's been thinking about it in the context of her body being moved and the hands contacting the ears.
"Really?" says McClintock.
"I really don't think you should be sceptical about that," says Cordner.
Given the blood is only between the fingers, and not on the hands, you can't discount the possibility the hand was cleaned? asks McClintock.
Cordner says "I can't say no" to that being one possibility.
Justice Lang asks if in the area where there's blood between the fingers, whether there's any evidence of injury.
Cordner says there was not.
Cordner agrees with McClintock there was no DNA found under Hanna's fingernails.
Mansfield objects: "This hasn't been suggested to any of the Crown pathologists or any of the other witnesses. So I'm a bit surprised it's being raised now."
Pathologist suggests first responders could have caused the bruises on Hanna's body
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Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock is showing the witness, forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner, photographs from how Hanna's body was positioned when police arrived, and questioning whether it could have been caused by a fall.
On the fact the bruises aren't visible in one photo of the scene referred to by Mansfield on Wednesday Cordner says he would expect to be able to see some of those four bruises in the photograph if they had been inflicted before death.
He also tells McClintock he accepts that she could have suffered the injury by the time of the photo, but the bruises may not have shown up yet.
"It raises a question about whether these bruises actually occurred as part of moving the body," Cordner says.
He clarifies he is suggesting one of the first responders could have caused the bruises by lifting the body.
Where you land on this injury, is that you think it could have happened after death, but you don't know that, is that fair? asks McClintock.
Cordner says that fair.
If it did happen in life, you said "there's more to discuss" is that what you said? asks McClintock.
And if it did happen in life, we now have three injuries over a similar timeframe before death? Is that fair?
Cordner agrees.
Cordner earlier said he doesn't think that constellation of bruises on its own justifies a thought that they are assaultive in nature.
The cross examination moves to the abrasion on Hanna's back.
Pathologists Cordner and Kesha both agree the wound could have happened soon after death.
Cordner tells McClintock that injury wouldn't be commonly focussed on in an assault.
He said in his evidence-in-chief the injury could have occurred before, after or at the time of death.
Jury has question about Hanna's nose injuries
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The trial has resumed following the morning adjournment.
The jury has asked a question about the injuries to Hanna's nose.
Here is the rough wording as read by Auckland Crown Solicitor Alysha McClintock:
On the photograph of Hanna's nose to the layman it looks bruised. The pathologist says it's not bruised. Can you please explain the bruised appearance?
McClintock is asking the witness to help with the juries question.
Cordner says he can totally understand the question. First of all, the nose looks slightly swollen, but that's not bruising.
Presumably that's just the shape of the deceased's nose when she was alive, says Cordner.
On to the purple colour. That's bruising but a post-mortem development resulting from congestion.
"The whole face is congested," says Cordner.
Would the purple colour indicate any haemorrhaging? asks McClintock.
Cornder says the colour of the face compared to the paler chest shows it is generally discoloured purple, from congestion.
He explains he means the congestion syndrome already mentioned in evidence resulting from when you block the veins but the blood is still being pumped into the head via the arteries, which require more pressure to obstruct, Cordner says.
McClintock is asking about the constellation of bruises to Hanna's right arm.
Cordner said earlier it looked like a grip of four fingers. But he raised the possibility it could have occurred after death, because of a photo of the scene appearing to show the marks are absent.
You said pathologists can't tell between a bruise that happened ten minutes ago or 24 hours ago? asks McClintock.
Cordner agrees.
And the yellowing may start about 18 hours after or beyond?
That's right, he says.
Hanna had a Covid vaccine on April 4. Were you asked to cover off that as a potential cause?
Cordner was.
His conclusion was that he'd doubt the jab would explain that cluster of bruising on Hanna's arm.
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We are taking the morning adjournment. Court resumes in 15 minutes.
Trial to continue for at least another week
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Justice Lang is addressing the timing and progress of the trial.
The Judge said there is still a bit more evidence to go from the defence. Lawyers had told him the evidence will conclude on Tuesday, he said.
That means the Crown would close on Wednesday, the defence would close on Thursday and the Judge would sum up on Friday, the jury has heard.
Vera Alves
Crown prosecutor Alysha McClintock is cross-examining forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner.
Cordner says one or two falls can produce three or four minor injuries.
McClintock says we'd then need to look at the likelihood of one or two falls. Cordner agrees.
The prosecutor is back to the small bruise on the temple.
She says Cordner said earlier the bruise could be the result of a fall into something, but a punch other manual blow can't be excluded.
But, says McClintock, there's nothing to positively suggest a fall versus a punch.
"Hence the conclusion non-specific injury," says Cordner.
Was the level of force used to inflict this bruise moderate, as you said earlier in evidence? asks McClintock
Cordner says quantifying force is difficult.
Can we take from that the level of force is more than trivial? asks McClintock.
"I agree with that."
"I think a decent punch would be a fair description," says Cordner of the level of force required, but he doesn't rule out at all other causes.
McClintock asks about the language used to describe the wounds, including "grazes" for abrasions. and suggests the language is deliberately ambiguous.
"I'm happy to blame Mr Mansfield for this," says McClintock to laughs.
That's why we use the term "non-specific," says Cordner.
Do you agree more neutral language than non-specific would be to say the injury doesn't tell us if it was caused by assault or some other cause.
Cordner says that wording is right but so is non-specific.
McClintock is on to the wound to Hanna's nose bridge described by Mansfield as a small graze.
The autopsy pathologist Dr Kesha had said there was a haemorrhage associated with the injury, having seen it both at the scene and at the autopsy.
Cornder says he accepts there was a haemorrhage. He earlier said he believed the injury could have been caused after death.
"He said she was alive when that happened," McClintock says of Dr Kesha's findings.
"Look that's perfectly possible but as we've seen with the haemorrhage in the ear, that is clearly damage that occurred after death," Cordner says.
Cordner says the haemorrhage (bleeding) of the nose injury increases the likelihood it occurred while Hanna was alive, but it didn't rule out the injury being suffered after death.
Crown begins cross-examination of defence's forensic pathologist
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Auckland Crown Solicitor Alysha McClintock has begun her cross-examination of forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner.
She asks if there is any chance her death could have been an accident.
Cordner doesn't think so.
He confirms that the cause of death is binary, meaning if it wasn't murder, it's suicide, and vice-versa.
McClintock is asking about the rules for expert witnesses. Cordner is confirming he's bound by those roles, to confine himself to his area of expertise and to remain impartial. He confirms that's right.
McClintock asks if it's right to say Cordner wouldn't be able to comment on whether Hanna was suicidal the night before her death
"I don't know how anything I've said would lead to that question," he says.
He confirms he can't say if Hanna was suicidal.
"We should always add to your answers the qualifier, on the pathology?" asks McClintock.
Cordner says that's right and that his answers are grounded in forensic pathology.
Cordner confirms he knows Dr Sage. McClintock asks if Sage is the leading forensic pathologist together with Dr Simon Stables.
Cordner says everyone involved is doing their best.
"Perfectly reasonable for people to have different points of view," he says.
McClintock says Sage told the court he's seen 11 hangings this year and 800 overall.
Cordner again agrees he's very experienced.
McClintock says the "nub of the thing" is how much the pathology can actually help determine how Hanna died, compared to all the other evidence.
Cordner says he's said that before.
McClintock is asking about the 2cm bruise on Hanna's temple.
Cordner said earlier it was a "non-specific" injury that could have occurred any time in the 24 hours before death.
McClintock asks and Cordner confirms non-specific injuries are common, where you can't definitively see what caused it.
McClintock says Sage said "witness injuries", where you can tell what caused the wound, are rare. Cordner agrees.
Veteran pathologist tells trial he would have ruled Hanna's death a suicide
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Forensic pathologist Prof Stephen Cordner said earlier the lividity pattern (the redness resulting from blood pooling after death) fit with her having been seated while dead initially before she was moved to the floor, as Polkinghorne told police had happened.
Cordner says he did not make the conclusion she was sitting in the chair.
But the lividty pattern did fit with her sitting in a chair, he says.
Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield is now running through with the defence pathologist Cordner several things said to be suspicious about the case.
Is there anything suspicious about the ligature not circling the entire neck? asks Mansfield.
No. Very often there's a fixed knot with space between the knot and the neck, so therefore the mark won't encircle the entire neck, he says. And, he adds, there's also the circumstances we've already discussed where there's no mark at all.
Is there anything unusual about the scene being tampered with? asks Mansfield.
The vast majority are interfered with in some way by very often by the people in the domestic setting, says Cordner. It's the norm, he adds.
If you were responsible for this case, by way of being the attending pathologist, how would you have reported the cause of death?
"If I had been responsible for this case I would have concluded the cause of death was hanging because the findings fit with hanging and there are no findings to support the alternative of homicidal ligature or manual strangulation."
What about the idea that the absence of injuries leaving the question open she could have been either hanged or strangled.
Well then we wouldn't conclude any of the hangings we attend are hangings if that were they approach, he says.
Can I just confirm whether you've ever heard of Dr Polkinghorne or met with him or even come across him in your professional life?
"No I haven't."
So you came to this case fresh.
"Well as fresh as a 70-year-old can be."
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Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield is asking about areas of pallor on the neck. Cordner says at first glance these might appear suspicious - appearing to hint, but not say, they could be interpreted as finger marks.
But he says they are not evidence of a manual strangulation.
Instead, they are a post-mortem artefact, resulting from creases in the back of Hanna's neck, as occur with ageing.
Dr Kesha in his autopsy quite rightly examined these areas of pallor and found no evidence of injury, says Cordner.
We are traversing already well-trod ground in this evidence.
Cordner is again saying that in most strangulations, there are indicative defensive injuries which Hanna lacked. And where these injuries are absent, there's a good reason, such the victim being unwell or too young or old to fight back, he said earlier.
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Prof Stephen Cordner says it's fair to say the sort of mechanisms that have been proposed for Hanna's alleged killing, such the carotid sleeper hold or choker hold referred to by the Crown's pathologist Dr Martin Sage, even if that was undertaken by trained people like a police officer, "I would expect that generally there would be injuries".
The trial heard there was no real internal damage to the internal neck structures of Hanna's neck.
Sage referred to stories about serial killers in the United States who had claimed they had developed a method of killing without leaving marks, allowing them to get away with multiple murders.
"What faith we can put in that commentary I don't know," Sage said during the Crown case.
It was one of several of Sage's claims treated with derision by Mansfield in his cross-examination of Sage.
What faith would you put in those claims or brags by imprisoned serial killers in the United States? asks Mansfield.
"I don't expect he was thinking anyone would take that seriously," Cordner says.
'The findings support hanging' - says pathologist in Polkinghorne murder trial
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Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield is running through the evidence of one of the pathologists called by the Crown, Dr Martin Sage.
He was called to discuss the evidence of the pathologist who undertook the autopsy, Dr Kilak Kesha.
Sage had said the lack of marks on the neck are uncommon, as was the fact the mark on one side of the neck disappeared from the time of her body was found to the autopsy the next day.
Cordner disagrees, he says it's a well recognised phenomenon little or no mark can be left by a ligature in a hanging.
He says he doesn't think it's common, but he's not sure any pathologist has a good reading on how common or uncommon it is.
Sage was then asked about the fact the mark was an "artefact" by the time of the post-mortem and said he thinks it doesn't tell us much.
Cornder says it tells us one thing, that the interaction between the belt and the neck was static.
If there had been relative movement between the belt and the neck there would have been something in the way of an abrasion.
(Earlier, Cordner said the lack of neck abrasions went against the strangulation theory, given strangulation homicides are violent, dynamic affairs where the ligature is likely to move).
Neither Kesha nor Sage were prepared to say what sort of neck compression caused Hanna's death. They left both homicidal manual or ligature strangulation, or suicide by partial hanging, as possible causes of the neck compression.
"My view is that it's reasonable to go a bit further," says Cordner.
"The findings support hanging and there's no findings to support homicidal ligature or manual strangulation.
"And that's the way we approach all the hangings that we deal with."
No indication of past assaults on Hanna's body - pathologist
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The jury is back and we're underway.
Justice Lang says good morning and that he hopes they had a pleasant day yesterday, when the trial did not sit.
Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield is continuing leading the evidence of Professor Stephen Cordner, the defence pathologist whose evidence began on Wednesday.
Cordner confirms there's no evidence of sexual activity or a sexual assault from the pathology report or photographs he's examined.
We're back to the time of death, already discussed briefly on Wednesday, in relating to the mobility of lividity, the settling of the blood in the body under the influence of gravity.
That mobility remains for 12 to 24 hours, he says.
There is still mobility between the time the body is at the scene on April 5, 2021, and the autopsy the following day, Cordner says.
Cordner repeats that three to six hours before she was found is a fair estimate for the time of death, but things are not always cut and dry with time of death and it could be two hours or it could be eight
When the body was first found, it was not stiff and was still a bit loose. That also supports the death being only a few hours before she was found, he says.
Was there any evidence of prior assaults?
There was a healing abrasion to her left shoulder as well as surgical scars, says Cordner.
But nothing specific that was indicative of a past assault, the Australian pathologist says.
Trial about to resume
Vera Alves
The trial is resuming and the public are filtering back into their seats in the gallery. There's about 70 people here today not including lawyers, jurors and media.
Polkinghorne murder trial day 27 - defence pathologist to resume
Vera Alves
Welcome to the Herald’s live coverage of the murder trial of Philip Polkinghorne, the Remuera eye surgeon accused of killing his wife Pauline Hanna and staging the scene to look like a suicide.
At 10am the defence pathologist Professor Stephen Cordner will return to the witness box. Cordner has flown over from Melbourne to give evidence. There are still defence witnesses left to call after him, including experts Ron Mansfield KC mentioned in his opening address, such as a psychiatrist and suicide expert. The trial did not sit yesterday due to juror commitments and a Court of Appeal session in Auckland.
Cordner’s more than 40 years of experience conducting autopsies included a period as director of the Victoria Institute of Forensic Medicine. He’s also had roles, the jury heard, with the International Committee of the Red Cross, undertaking post-mortems on victims of war in Iraq and the former Yugoslavia.
Cordner reviewed the autopsy report prepared by forensic pathologist Dr Kilak Kesha and looked at the crime scene and post-mortem photos.
He said he found no solid evidence to support the contention Pauline Hanna was killed either by manual strangulation - someone placing their hands or arms around her neck to throttle her - or ligature strangulation, meaning a rope, belt or similar was used.
“There is no evidence of a forensic pathology kind to positively support a conclusion that this deceased has been homicidally, manually or ligaturely killed,” he said at the conclusion of his evidence on Wednesday.
He based that conclusion on the lack of internal or external injuries apparent from the examination of her neck.
For example, if she had been throttled with the woven leather belt Polkinghorne said he found on her neck, there would be abrasions on the skin of the neck. That’s because a ligature strangulation is a violent act, that would in all likelihood occur amid a dynamic and chaotic struggle, where the belt would have moved up and down against the neck causing damage to the skin, he said. No such damage was found.
Similarly, there was no damage internally to the neck, such as persistent bruising or injuries to the strap muscles on either side of the neck, he said.
Cordner said the only wounds found on Hanna’s body were minor non-specific injuries such as a graze on the bridge of her nose and a small bruise on her temple. They were not anywhere near the extent normally seen in strangulation victims, 70 percent of who fight back violently to resist their strangler, resulting in extensive defensive injuries, he said. In the other 30 percent of cases where there’s good reason for the lack of defensive injuries, such as the victim being very old or unwell.
She did not lose any acrylic nails before her death or have any DNA or blood under her nails indicating she fought back, Cordner said.
The defence pathologist was asked about the constellation of four bruises on her right arm, said by the Crown to resemble a grip mark. He noted there was no evidence of a thumb print to indicate the grip would have gone all round the arm.
Mansfield then produced a photo of the crime scene on April 5, 2021, showing a photo of Hanna’s body shortly after police arrived at the scene. No bruise marks on her right arm could be seen. Cordner said that could mean they hadn’t developed yet, but he added it could also mean they were inflicted post-mortem.
The lack of drag marks on her body indicated she had not been moved across a carpet after death, he said. He emphasised the difficulty of moving a body after death, saying the rule in pathology is it takes two people because it is so heavy, floppy and difficult to manoeuvre.
He said he found it “quite mind-boggling to imagine” that the eye surgeon's wife could have been manipulated after death to simulate a suicide by hanging.
His analysis of the lividity patterns on Hanna’s body, the redness due to blood pooling after death, tended to support Polkinghorne’s version of events, that he had found his wife in a chair having hanged herself, before cutting her down and placing her on the floor.
As for the disappearing partial belt mark on Hanna’s neck, observed by police on April 5 but mostly gone by the time of the autopsy the next day, he said that was no proof she did not hang herself.
Pathologists do not have any issue concluding a hanging had occurred even when no mark at all is left on the neck, and the literature supports this, Cordner said.
STORY CONTINUES
Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield KC has countered that her death was a tragic suicide, spurred by work stress and years of depression.
The Crown case has not put much emphasis on the pathology findings. They are inconclusive enough that jurors should instead focus on the other circumstantial evidence, Crown solicitor Alysha McClintock has suggested. But Polkinghorne’s lawyers have put more emphasis on the findings, especially the suicide opinion of the defence expert.
“We need to confine your evidence to the pathology, don’t we?” McClintock asked, explaining it was up to jurors to consider all of the evidence together.
Cordner – a professor emeritus from the Department of Forensic Medicine at Monash University in Melbourne, a Member of the Order of Australia and the retired director of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, which is tasked with conducting the region’s autopsies – agreed.
“So you’re not here to interpret all of the evidence in this case and tell us what the answer is, are you?” the prosecutor asked, to which he again agreed.
McClintock took him, step-by-step, over the injuries that were found on Hanna during a post-mortem examination. None of them were obviously assaultive in nature, he had said. But in the inverse, none of them were obviously non-assaultive, McClintock emphasised, and he agreed.
A 2-inch-by-1-inch bruise on her temple could have been the result of a fall or an accident anytime in the 24 hours before death or it could have been the result of a punch, the expert said, agreeing with the Crown that if it had been a punch it would have been “a decent one” to cause bruising in that area.
A small cluster of abrasions on the bridge of Hanna’s nose could have occurred after her death, the expert originally testified. McClintock pointed out that the pathologist at the scene saw blood, suggesting it happened before death.
“Look, that’s perfectly possible,” he said, explaining that the other pathologist’s observation could increase the likelihood it happened while Hanna was alive but it doesn’t rule out the post-death theory.
Likewise, an abrasion on Hanna’s back could have been incurred before or after death, the expert said, adding that he wouldn’t usually associate that injury with an assault.
McClintock then brought up a never-before-mentioned theory about blood found between two of Hanna’s fingers. Her hands were not bleeding, and all three pathologists determined the blood probably came from routine post-death haemorrhaging of her ear. Cordner said he figured the blood probably ended up between the fingers while the body was being moved prior to her autopsy.
“Really?” McClintock asked with a tone of incredulity.
”I really don’t think you should be sceptical about that,” the expert responded.
The prosecutor noted there was no obvious blood on the underside of Hanna’s hands. Could Cordner discount the possibility that someone had cleaned her hands of the blood, McClintock asked.
“I don’t know,” he said with obvious reluctance, adding that he “can’t say no” to that having been one possibility.
The defence objected to the line of questioning, pointing out that such a theory had never been put to the two Crown witnesses. McClintock said she was only trying to make the point that there are possibilities out there that pathology can’t account for, but she agreed with the judge to move on.
Throughout his testimony on Wednesday and again this morning, Cordner repeatedly noted that he would expect to see more injuries – including injuries to the inside and outside of the neck – had Hanna died as the result of a homicide.
“My view is that it’s reasonable to go a bit further,” Cordner said of the two assessments from his colleagues. ”The findings support hanging and there’s no findings to support homicidal ligature or manual strangulation.”
If one was to leave open the possibility of homicide even when there’s no findings to support it – as he said his colleagues did – it would be impossible to rule anything a suicide, he suggested.
”If I had been responsible for this case I would have concluded the cause of death was hanging because the findings fit with hanging and there are no findings to support the alternative of homicidal ligature or manual strangulation,” Cordner said.
But under cross-examination, McClintock referred back to Christchurch-based pathologist Martin Sage, who said there are a “huge number of variables” to a homicidal strangling – not all of which can be determined by a post-mortem exam.
”I agree things are pretty dynamic, yes,” Cordner responded.
The pathologist’s cross-examination is expected to continue this afternoon, after the jury’s lunch break concludes.
Justice Graham Lang revealed to jurors this morning that the trial, which was originally scheduled to last six weeks, will continue for all of next week and perhaps into an eighth week. The defence is expected to call it’s last witness on Tuesday, he said, followed by a Crown closing address on Wednesday and a defence closing address on Thursday. Deliberations, the judge predicted, will begin on Friday and there’s no assumption about how long that will take.
Craig Kapitan is an Auckland-based journalist covering courts and justice. He joined the Herald in 2021 and has reported on courts since 2002 in three newsrooms in the US and New Zealand.
The Herald will be covering the case in a daily podcast, Accused: The Polkinghorne Trial. You can follow the podcast at iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, through The Front Page feed, or wherever you get your podcasts.